The First issue.. Quadruped, or Bipedal, Start yer engines.

This is the place for discussion and voting on various aspects of werewolf life, social ideas, physical appearance, etc. Also a place to vote on how a werewolf should look.
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Calypso Blue

The First issue.. Quadruped, or Bipedal, Start yer engines.

Post by Calypso Blue » Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:02 am

Personally, I like a hybrid of both, could do either.. But im more partial to bipedal. I think a wolf is a wolf.. a werewolf is half man/half wolf.. but thats just me personally.

dD

Personall I prefer quadruped.

Post by dD » Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:21 pm

I disagree ;p
A quadruped is the best choice because part of the wonder of becoming a werewolf is the new experience of being on all fours. Plus the extra stability of a werewolf on all fours is even more terrifying because it leaps up at you, you can't get away. A biped werewolf that is occasionally quadruped or a pure biped is more unstable, more clumsy, you can push it over etc.

Or to put it another way, quadruped werewolves are faster, more agile and scarier. Would you rather have a lumbering werewolf like out of 'Dog Soldiers' after you or the AWIL werewolf?
Exactly ;)

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Post by Guest » Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:21 pm

Ahh draco-wolf
Sticking to the imaginary movie
ASH ( American Serpent in Hooterville )
I'd avoid a fully upright bipedal position as thats too human

Perhaps arms and legs splayed out to the sides
advancing to arms and legs directly under the
body graduating up to a bipedal gait with the body
hunched over 45 degrees

I suppose if your're running about on your tippy toes you'd need
some means to take the full body weight off the hind feet such as a
big tail or perhaps run very fast so full ground contact is kept to a
minimum

Hooterville wise farming might have some bearing
Old tractors were slow heavy things pre WW2
weight x speed =omentum

after WW2 the tractor designers played with that equation
very fast and light
same momentum,but a much lighter and faster machine

most modern tractors run on the big horsepower,light body,high speed
design

So a dinosaur could be called a WD6 6000 lbs chugging at 2 mph

while a Belarus 5100 might be a fast wolf at 4000 bs clipping at 5 mph

Of course that means a WD6 plodding along at 2mph that can suddenly
charge along at 8mph would be the really dangerous and deceptive dinosaur

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Post by Xodiac » Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:23 pm

Quadruped or bipedal, either works. Both have their points.

The quadruped is good because, well, it's more wolf-like. The transformation is further from human, so the creature is likely more beastial, less intelligent. It would be faster and more savage than a bipedal werewolf, and could probably be evaded by getting behind a stout door or climbing a high enough tree.

The bipedal werewolf, on the other hand, is more human. This would emphasize the supernatural nature of the beast - people would be very unlikely to mistake it for a regular wolf grown large if it's walking around on two legs. So people in town would be far more likely to realize something screwy was in their midst, wich can make for some interesting plot points but makes the "Stupid Populace Dismissing the Shenanegans Going On Under Their Noses" plot point less likely. A bipedal werewolf, being more humanlike, also implies a more intelligent creature, so if they're after a non-slasher type of flick it'd be a lot more plausible. Wolves can't strategize, or talk, but humans can, so a werewolf that remains part human would more plausibly do these things than a quadrupedal one. On the other hand, if it IS a slasher-type gorefest, then a werewolf that can strategize and talk from the shadows to lure its prey into alleys might be an interesting twist. It'd also be a lot harder to get away from, as it could open doors or use the nearby fire extinguisher to batter it down.

Personally, I'd like to see more bipedal weres, because of the intelligence it implies. Even recent movies like Underworld, which had humanoid werewolves, had them acting like bloodthirsty beasts. A werewolf that can strategize and plan his attack and defense would be a nice twist, at least to moviedom, and I feel a humanoid were more easily accomodates that. But a quadrupedal one is fine, too, if done right.

Guest

Post by Guest » Tue Nov 23, 2004 6:13 pm

Just to point out that 2 and 4 aren't the only numbers in the universe

kangaroos for example use their tail as a 3rd leg when they aren't hopping about

O also has possibilities

Werewolves on horseback

Aging werewolves in power scooters

or if you go with the spirit of ' Devour"

cannabalistic mobile alien pods that hunt down a victim.gobble
up their lower extremities as the screaming victims lower part
is injected with a retrovirus and pumped back into the upper
body,hence transforming the rest of the human into a bigger
wolf thing with a bigger head,bigger arms and bigger torso
because of the added mass from the now non existence legs and hips

A sort of Dr Who Dalek werewolf

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Post by Calypso Blue » Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:34 pm

I agree with that, I would think that both should be present in the movie, 4 and 2 legs.. Hmmm alien pods? im not sure but I'll run it by them.

I do know this, the design will not be a sculpted head of a werewolf in pre/snarl.. like underworld and many other werewolf flicks.. Wolves don't HAVE to be bloodthirsty all the time, and I think its more eerie if a werewolf were to look at you from across the streeet with a blank expression. not knowing what its thinking, as opposed to seeing it always snarling, and knowing damn well you're on the menu. I would equivocatte that to nature, see a pack of wolves.. are they snarling? are they just looking at yoU? are they running around in circles chasing their tails..

I think wolf packs have a social structure, which denotes a range of emotions.. fear, anger, base instinctual hunger, and everything. I want to push them to show those things if I can..

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Post by WolvenOne » Wed Nov 24, 2004 3:18 am

In my mind, werewolves should be naturally bipedal, but have the ability to shift into a quadrupedal stance for quick dashes, sort of like an ape, but in reverse.

Now, it can be argued that this is unrealistic, that such a creature would be unstable, and this is true. However, with every werewolf film you have to throw out realism, as a werewolf simply isn't biologically possible.

I'll have to reiterate something else previous people have pointed out, a bipedal wolf does indeed emphasize intelligence, which honestly should be a werewolf's strongest attribute.

Any large predator can kill a person, and indeed it the result of being mauled by a tiger would make most peoples stomach turn. However, animals aren’t monsters, animals do things out of instinct, or out of a need for food, however, humans, with their grand reasoning capacity, have killed for far more trivial matters, such as jealousy, greed, lust, and even money, and with their greater intelligence they’ve learned how to kill people in ways far more horrific then any animal could.

Intelligence is a weapon far greater then any set of claws, so in my mind, this is what should be emphasized.

Of course, intelligence, plus brute strength and speed, is even worse, which is why having the ability to shift into a quadrupedal stance is important. A werewolf is both an animal and a man; they are brute strength and intelligence. So it makes sense for them to be able to utilize stances that emphasize each aspect of their character.

dD

repost from TFB

Post by dD » Wed Nov 24, 2004 12:29 pm

Okay first up a werewolf should have a tail and it should be a quadruped. If it has no tail it often looks like a big ape.

As for specifics I think that the special effects crew need to look at 'AWIL' and the first 'Howling', they need to beware of relying on CGI because it often looks phonier than puppetry. The transformation should literally look like a creature within the human is fighting its way violently out of the human frame, asserting control. The transformation could even perhaps begin in a small way during the day before the rise of the moon and then gather pace as the transformation takes hold. One of the best thing about Cronenbergs 'Fly' was the way in which small changes took place and then gathered speed. The bit where Brundle first wonders what is happening to him is classic as is the scene where he is making love to Davis and we see what he does not, that minute hairs are growing out of his scar tissue.... that was atmospheric.
Don't cheat the fans is my other piece of advice. (I know you won't but 'Underworld' pissed me off.) The bit of cgi in 'Underworld' was really neat where we saw inside the changing werewolfs body the moving organs and the expanding ribs, then the transformation was stopped and I wanted to throw rocks at the screen, what a letdown.
Plus, I think a transformation scene should show the human body in some pain and fighting the transformation, the sounds of the body contorting, skin tightening and bones shifting all add a lot to atmosphere. As does a decent soundtrack, for my money, 'The Howling' got it spot on, a rhythmic grinding that won't be denied... etc etc.
If money is an issue for SFX you can always creatively use shadow like 'The Howling'.

Any use? I bet you've said half these already.

WolvenOne

Post by WolvenOne » Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:49 pm

As for specifics I think that the special effects crew need to look at 'AWIL' and the first 'Howling', they need to beware of relying on CGI because it often looks phonier than puppetry.
You're right not relying on CGI, however, I'd caution people about borrowing too much from any already existing film. AWIL is a good movie. but every movie has to stand on its own merits and not simply borrow from previously made films.

Besides, in my opinion, there really hasn't been any werewolf film that's really lived up to the potential of the genre. So it doesn't really make sense to borrow more then you have to.

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Post by Silverfang » Sat Nov 27, 2004 4:48 pm

Hey , new to the forum but anyway down to business

I have to say bipedal on digigrade feet (think altered wolf hind legs for walking on 2 feet) but the ability to run an all fours for extra speed, Tail is a MUST for balance sake
Intelligence is a weapon far greater then any set of claws, so in my mind, this is what should be emphasized.

Of course, intelligence, plus brute strength and speed, is even worse, which is why having the ability to shift into a quadrupedal stance is important. A werewolf is both an animal and a man; they are brute strength and intelligence. So it makes sense for them to be able to utilize stances that emphasize each aspect of their character.
That's about what a werewolf is in my view
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Post by Argyros » Sun Dec 05, 2004 4:05 pm

Digigrade feet, but with a hip and vertebral structure allowing them to move on two legs or four. In the human world, things just don't work out on all fours, you gotta be able to stand on two legs for at least a few seconds to turn doorknobs, press buttons, or smack somebody in the face.
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Post by ShadowFang » Sun Dec 05, 2004 5:57 pm

Agreed. Werewolf with powerful digitigrade legs and a tail. Question is...how long of a tail? I think that'll be settled in the "tail or not?" thread.

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Post by Sporty Fox » Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:32 pm

I prefere a quadraped version myself, it's just more wolf like and less human. A quad can still stand for brief periods, and would have an advantage in taking down prey. Don't believe it? Try going up against a trained police dog and see how long you can stay verticle! A 100lb animal has no problem bringing down a person twice it's wieght, they can do it easier than a human can and thats without seriously wounding them. Now imagine what one that wants to remove your throat can do, or a 200 lb werewolf. A quad would have no problem with door knobs either, you grip it in your teeth if nothing else- dogs do this all the time. Latches and other mechanical devices are manipulated by a quad as easily as a bi-ped, again canines learn these tricks all the time.

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Post by LoupGarou » Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:21 pm

Yeah both would work fairly well,it worked in An American Werewolf in Paris,ok yeah they used cgi but i think its doable,so yeah go for both.
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Post by Apokryltaros » Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:43 pm

LoupGarou wrote:Yeah both would work fairly well,it worked in An American Werewolf in Paris,ok yeah they used cgi but i think its doable,so yeah go for both.
That would work, if they hadn't made the werewolves look like tailless monkey-lion hybrids who were raped by the ugly-stick.

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Post by LoupGarou » Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:24 am

But what can you do?some werewolves look good and some don,t.
let's just hope this werewolf will be on the good side.
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Re: The First issue.. Quadruped, or Bipedal, Start yer engines.

Post by Lee annnn » Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:32 pm

I think something like the wolves from Anita Blake vampire Hunter are well thought out. The more powerful they are, The more human they can shift, if they want to. A lot like a stereo typical werewolf is humanoid but they can be also Full wolves if they want. I like that, because they can be human, werewolf, or just plain wolf. Please don't hurt me because this is just my opinion not everyone else's in the world. :)

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Re: The First issue.. Quadruped, or Bipedal, Start yer engines.

Post by Volkodlak » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:00 am

Lee annnn,

why would we hurt you its your opinion we all have or own opinions, look they did not hurt me becouse im Fan of Underworld Lycan and most members here dislike them.

you cannot be human or Werewolf or plain wolf you are werewolf in all three forms no matter how you look. Personaly i have no issues with three form werewolf, but i prefer two form version. Your idea is too complex in my opinion.
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Re: The First issue.. Quadruped, or Bipedal, Start yer engines.

Post by Meeper » Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:29 am

Volkodlak wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:00 am
you cannot be human or Werewolf or plain wolf you are werewolf in all three forms no matter how you look. Personaly i have no issues with three form werewolf, but i prefer two form version. Your idea is too complex in my opinion.
I think Lee annnn was referring to more of a sliding scale than necessarily three distinct forms.

I mean sure, somewhere along the continuum between purely human and purely wolf forms, there may be forms that are either more comfortable and practical to linger at, or arrived at because of inherent limitation of the transformation "machinery" for whatever reason, which could become the "classical" forms. And let's not forget, many of the "forms" shown in movies are that way because of time and cost limitations weighed against the desire to make something they think looks cool. For example, the Underworld werewolves usually have the two forms, and the occasional "special" form of a special character, such as William being a white werewolf along with his direct (bitten) descendants with a more bestial body type than the regular lycans. But who is to say the Underworld werewolf form couldn't be pushed more and more toward a pure wolf form, or exist, willfully or otherwise, at mid way points along the transformation path, since the transformation machinery is there to do so (Lucien biting Michael in the elevator in Undwerworld 1 for example, Lucien was only slightly transformed to very practical effect from the character's point of view. I mean sure, it was just the director giving the fans an early teaser, but it still worked in and of itself).

Personally it's an idea I like, and am in favor of as I think it has the potential to extend the story telling possibilities, if not afford other interesting forms to gawk at.

As to this thread? I think we definitely need to see a quadruped, but as I've already alluded to, with the ability to transform, you get all manner of intermediate forms for free. It's just a matter of choosing which ones you want to showcase in your story.

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Re: The First issue.. Quadruped, or Bipedal, Start yer engines.

Post by Uniform Two Six » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:48 pm

Yeah, that was one of the draws for me in Werewolf: the Apocalypse. For those who don't know, in W:tA, the werewolves have five primary forms (human, wolf, and three intermediate forms). Between them, pretty much all of werewolf myth and lore were covered -- and nicely explained why various myths described werewolves differently. That is, the (rare) survivors of encounters with werewolves (who were presumably the ultimate sources for werewolf stories in the first place) merely saw werewolves in different forms and individually assumed that each was the only form werewolves could take.

Also sort of nifty in that multiple forms makes the werewolf much more versatile.

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