Lone wolf

This is the place for discussion and voting on various aspects of werewolf life, social ideas, physical appearance, etc. Also a place to vote on how a werewolf should look.
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Lone wolf

Post by Volkodlak » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:50 pm

HI,

im intrested whats your opinion on werewolfs without the pack or lone wolfs and in your opinion are they more dangerus than werewolf with the pack?
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Re: Lone wolf

Post by Uniform Two Six » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:50 pm

Like in all things, I would say it depends upon the individual. Just because he's a loner, that doesn't automatically make him a psychopath. The only real issue might be that if he's frustrated or angry, then he doesn't have a pack to keep him grounded, or give him someone that he could just talk to -- or in more extreme cases, a bunch of werewolves to intervene and stop him from acting on his impulses. Then again, there's nothing stopping an entire pack from being a bunch of violent psychopaths, in which case the more werewolves there are, the worse the problem is. As an example, most of the school-shooters are described as "loners", but in reality have small groups of friends. The problem is that they (like most of us, really) gravitate towards people whom they identify with, and who validate their own beliefs and feelings. The difference is that most of us don't gravitate towards people who have a "f**k-the-world" mentality.

My take would be that it would depend far more upon the werewolf being a decent person or not, rather than the number of werewolves around him.

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Re: Lone wolf

Post by Volkodlak » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:33 pm

nice post uniform besides would packs even tolerate loners ?
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Re: Lone wolf

Post by Uniform Two Six » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:51 am

Well, if he were part of a pack -- then he wouldn't be much of a lone wolf, would he?
:allears:

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Re: Lone wolf

Post by Volkodlak » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:55 am

no imagen you are an alpha then you discover there is a lone wolf living in your area i was thinking in this way would pack tolerate him/her or they would do something?
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Re: Lone wolf

Post by Uniform Two Six » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:00 am

What options would they have? They couldn't threaten him with exposure (without exposing themselves).
They could tell him to leave, but what if he said "no"?
They could kill him, but then they'd have the problem of the dead body torn apart by large wild animals.

As long as he's generally minding his own business, then why even bother with him? I'd think they'd just try to recruit him instead.

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Re: Lone wolf

Post by Volkodlak » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:07 am

you are right, but if hes a loner so he doesnt need too follow packs rules witch are probably there too keep them secret, but im not talking general rules witch all sane werewolf should know like not changing in public.
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Re: Lone wolf

Post by Uniform Two Six » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:12 am

Well, with regard to their tolerance of an outsider, I think the determining factor would be whether his behavior was more troublesome than doing something about him would be. If getting rid of him (or just beating the ever-living-sh** out of him) is more of a hassle than just quietly ignoring him, then they'll probably just ignore him.

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Re: Lone wolf

Post by Volkodlak » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:27 am

well beating someone up he could sue you and you will be in more troubles, so pack have limited safe options witch are talk and threatening to some point. Options like killing and beating are high risk
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Re: Lone wolf

Post by Terastas » Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:40 pm

Part of the problem is that, like I said in the serial killer thread, the only generally accepted way to become a werewolf is to get infected by another werewolf. Ergo, a werewolf couldn't just be lone by default -- there would have to be something that drove him to it.

Which, no matter how you slice it, implies some kind of mental instability. Yes, there are scenarios in which an otherwise level-headed individual could become lone; they could have become infected by a rogue werewolf and/or a werewolf that is now deceased. But those in turn generate bitterness, loneliness and xenophobia. A lone wolf would have a vendetta, either against the rogue who infected him or against whatever was responsible for the death of the other werewolf(s), and would likewise feel all alone in their struggle; would waver back and forth between being tempted to come out to others and being distrustful of the entire world around him.

Throw in the fact that a lone wolf would have nobody to cover his tail when he's in a bind, and there really are no benefits to being a lone wolf.

So yes, I would consider lone wolves to be more dangerous, to themselves if not the world around them.

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Re: Lone wolf

Post by Volkodlak » Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:52 am

Terastas wrote:Part of the problem is that, like I said in the serial killer thread, the only generally accepted way to become a werewolf is to get infected by another werewolf. Ergo, a werewolf couldn't just be lone by default -- there would have to be something that drove him to it.
what if hes bitten and left behind because the one who bitten him doesnt care about him or he doesnt want too be in pack.
Terastas wrote:Which, no matter how you slice it, implies some kind of mental instability. Yes, there are scenarios in which an otherwise level-headed individual could become lone; they could have become infected by a rogue werewolf and/or a werewolf that is now deceased. But those in turn generate bitterness, loneliness and xenophobia. A lone wolf would have a vendetta, either against the rogue who infected him or against whatever was responsible for the death of the other werewolf(s), and would likewise feel all alone in their struggle; would waver back and forth between being tempted to come out to others and being distrustful of the entire world around him.
some things you mentioned here could be said for ww with pack also, but here is also personality of bitten if hes left behind or choosen too be a loner he could be mentally stable and if he has human friend who knows what he is he would be quite stable meybe even more than pack ww without human friend who knows, because having human friend who knows your secret its a gift from god, because you can see you are not just a monster and he could help you to hold to your humanity.
Terastas wrote:Throw in the fact that a lone wolf would have nobody to cover his tail when he's in a bind, and there really are no benefits to being a lone wolf.
true too a point lone wolf can have a human or ww friends who knows what hes become and they could be his backup and i think being lone wolf is safer than having a pack its easier too find a pack than a lone wolf so what he loses with backup he gains with low profile.

Update:

well there is another way of becoming a lone wolf werewolf attacks and goes for kill not for turning you and you somehow kill him, you are bitten you think it was a wolf when next full moon rises you change now you are a lone wolf.
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Re: Lone wolf

Post by Uniform Two Six » Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:01 pm

Sure. That could happen. Why would that make the lone-wolf dangerous, though? Why would he be any more likely to go nuts and start killing people then if he had a pack? Him being a danger is still based upon who he is as a person, not on the circumstances of his infection.

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Re: Lone wolf

Post by Volkodlak » Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:15 am

Why would that make the lone-wolf dangerous, though?

He could be more dangerus becouse nobody is helping him with first shift you can have human friend close by, but hes human another WW would be better he at least knows how does it feel and in case if newbie snaps he could restrain him while human can only talk to him and hopes he comes to his senses. Its control thing again more control easier too deal with him.

Why would he be any more likely to go nuts and start killing people then if he had a pack?

he wont be more likely, but without the pack who will stop him if hes in pack other pack members would stop him.

Him being a danger is still based upon who he is as a person, not on the circumstances of his infection.

this one is debatable, but i agree mostly with you.
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Re: Lone wolf

Post by Uniform Two Six » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:50 pm

If he's got a human friend, then he has somebody to wrap him up in steel chains with a padlock. They sell that stuff at the hardware store by the foot, and it's not all that expensive.

As for having a pack, if he goes nuts under the full moon, why wouldn't the whole pack?

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Re: Lone wolf

Post by Volkodlak » Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:06 am

Uniform Two Six wrote:If he's got a human friend, then he has somebody to wrap him up in steel chains with a padlock. They sell that stuff at the hardware store by the foot, and it's not all that expensive.

As for having a pack, if he goes nuts under the full moon, why wouldn't the whole pack?
i was talking of first shift some can snap becouse first shift is brutal so other pack members can help him
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Re: Lone wolf

Post by Terastas » Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:17 am

lovec1990 wrote:what if hes bitten and left behind because the one who bitten him doesnt care about him or he doesnt want too be in pack.
Yeesh. If that isn't motivation for a vendetta, I don't know what is.
Uniform Two Six wrote:Why would that make the lone-wolf dangerous, though? Why would he be any more likely to go nuts and start killing people then if he had a pack?
Yes. For a multitude of reasons.

Most obvious among them would be the aforementioned vendetta(s) I was talking about. Assuming one cannot become a werewolf except by another werewolf, the lone wolf would have to have some additional reason for being lone, the two most obvious scenarios being that either the pack infected him and turned on / abandoned him, or that a third party and/or fate separated or eliminated the other werewolves who would have otherwise been the pack. Either way, the emotions involved with becoming lone would be highly negative (anger, sadness, fear, etc.) and be more likely to drive a werewolf to behaving irrationally.

Second, the werewolf will be going through the motions of lycanthropy without any guidance whatsoever. Someone may be borderline psychotic, but with the proper guidance of a pack about what to expect from lycanthropy (and what is expected of them as a lycanthrope), they may be able to hide it. A lone wolf, on the other hand, is going in without any clue at all of what to expect.

How do we even know that werewolves who go nuts and start killing people are even aware that they are killing people? If you believe lycanthropy can cause chemical imbalances in the brain (as I do) and cause hallucinations, who's to say that that werewolf who just swiped at you with his claws doesn't think he's swatting invisible mosquitoes away from him?

This comes to mind:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUhOnX8qt3I

One more thing to consider is the psychological value of belonging to a family. Many a werewolf might have no qualms about fighting and dying for what they consider to be a noble cause, but would not dream of actually pursuing such an end with consideration for how it would affect the rest of their pack. A lone werewolf, obviously, would not have this kind of concern weighing himself down.

Just the opposite, in fact. With nobody to relate to -- nobody that can tell him "Dude, I know exactly what you're going through," he may feel like his life has no value except in its end. Which can end, more or less, in two ways: In him trying to give his life meaning by assembling his own pack, or by setting the date and time for his glorious end.

So regardless of what kind of person the lone werewolf is, I would still consider him to be a greater risk, one way or another.

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Re: Lone wolf

Post by Volkodlak » Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:02 am

Terastas nice post, but in my point of view human friend who knows your secret is far more valuable becouse you were human once and he can help you with finding place among other humans while werewolf pack would try too distance you to a certian point from humans and i am not sure that most newbies would be happy with their new condition and living with people who coused it at first place well at least i would be pissed at them even if there is no drawbacks with being a werewolf i was still turned against my will thats why i would go lone wolf.
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Re: Lone wolf

Post by Terastas » Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:52 pm

lovec1990 wrote:Terastas nice post, but in my point of view human friend who knows your secret is far more valuable becouse you were human once and he can help you with finding place among other humans while werewolf pack would try too distance you to a certian point from humans and i am not sure that most newbies would be happy with their new condition and living with people who coused it at first place well at least i would be pissed at them even if there is no drawbacks with being a werewolf i was still turned against my will thats why i would go lone wolf.
Only problem is that your "human friend" has no investment in your preservation (other than an emotional one), and regardless of how close a friend you think he is, there is no guarantee that it will sustain after the reveal.

Lycanthropy isn't just some mild "Oh, by the way-" revelation. Just acknowledging that it exists would completely alter a person's perspective of the world, never mind the fact that you have it. There is no guarantee whatsoever that someone would be able to handle it, or keep it, especially not when the only motivation to do so is the occasional guilt trip.

Pissed at the pack? Of course -- if that happened to me, I would be too. But they're the only ones who could possibly tell me what I'm in for, so I'll can my emotions as best I can until I've got a handle on how to live like that.

See, while there are plenty of legitimate reasons why a werewolf would want to go lone, the repercussions of doing so would be too great and too many for it to ever seem like the rational option. It might seem like the morally right thing to do, but it would never be the responsible thing to do.

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Re: Lone wolf

Post by Volkodlak » Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:59 am

Terastas i belive you missed the part where i wrote human friend that knows your secret and can handle it and lets face it its easier to adjust too new lifestyle with help of human friend that you trust, than a werewolf you barely know.

Sorry, but no way i would even tolerate presence of people who coused this and no way i would stay and lisen their explonation on what im in for only way i would lisen if WW that is trying to explain it too me is not member of their pack.
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Re: Lone wolf

Post by Terastas » Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:40 pm

lovec1990 wrote:Terastas i belive you missed the part where i wrote human friend that knows your secret and can handle it and lets face it its easier to adjust too new lifestyle with help of human friend that you trust, than a werewolf you barely know.
Without a doubt, a human friend who can handle it would be an absolute blessing.

Only problem is this: How do you know they can handle it? Did they already know in advance? If so, how? And if you're the one that told them, what made you so confident that they could handle a perspective-shattering revelation like "werewolves exist (and by the way, I'm one of them)?"

See, while the end result would be excellent, the process by which you would get that result is perilous to the extreme.
Sorry, but no way i would even tolerate presence of people who coused this and no way i would stay and lisen their explonation on what im in for only way i would lisen if WW that is trying to explain it too me is not member of their pack.
This just goes back to what I said about the difference between morality and responsibility. Turning away from the pack might be the right thing to do, but it would never be the safe thing to do.

So while the reasons for going rogue might be perfectly valid, you have to at least concede that going rogue would be a danger to everyone involved.

Mind you, I'm not suggesting that, were I in that situation, that I would tolerate the corrupt pack forever. Only long enough to make sure I'm well-prepared for the repercussions of going rogue.

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Re: Lone wolf

Post by Volkodlak » Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:45 am

Terastas wrote:Without a doubt, a human friend who can handle it would be an absolute blessing.

Only problem is this: How do you know they can handle it? Did they already know in advance? If so, how? And if you're the one that told them, what made you so confident that they could handle a perspective-shattering revelation like "werewolves exist (and by the way, I'm one of them)?"

See, while the end result would be excellent, the process by which you would get that result is perilous to the extreme.
i agree with you on this part.
Terastas wrote:This just goes back to what I said about the difference between morality and responsibility. Turning away from the pack might be the right thing to do, but it would never be the safe thing to do.

So while the reasons for going rogue might be perfectly valid, you have to at least concede that going rogue would be a danger to everyone involved.

Mind you, I'm not suggesting that, were I in that situation, that I would tolerate the corrupt pack forever. Only long enough to make sure I'm well-prepared for the repercussions of going rogue.
I belive they are responsible for you now becouse they coused it and if they need to remain in secret they need to deal with you in the way you are not a threat to them so they need to convince you too stay and lisen at least long enough that they see you can handle it and in mean time try too become friends with you, but if you still do not want too be member of their pack they should let you go besides you still can be on friendly terms with them and its good for both sides you are free(lone wolf) and they would be more at ease becouse they can keep eye on you, besides i do not see how would be a person comfortable to stay with people who failed too prevent one of theirs member from attacking you.
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Re: Lone wolf

Post by Meeper » Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:47 pm

Uniform Two Six wrote:Well, if he were part of a pack -- then he wouldn't be much of a lone wolf, would he?
:allears:
I'd say being a loner in this case can be a state of mind, rather than a circumstance. Ala "Alone in a crowd". Pack or no pack, a loner can continue to be a loner, unless a pack genuinely fills a need or otherwise dissolves the loner mind somehow, which you've pointed out depends on the individual of course.

Which brings me onto an idea that I haven't got fully understood yet, so I can't present it very well, but there's another angle to being a loner which probably factors into whether or not your loner werewolf is more dangerous. I'm hesitant to make this differentiation, because it might not be interpreted the way I intend, that is the difference between a loner who's just a loner, but still in some ways dependent on others, and what I'll call a "true loner", which is someone who's utterly independent and self sufficient, freeing them from dependence and perhaps critically their obligation to a society. Being self sufficient inherently suggests having more of the things that potentially makes them dangerous, like killing and preparing your own food, whereas a "dependent" loner cannot afford to strike out on their own and need various levels of protection and provision. From here psychology and morality probably picks up the slack as to whether or not a true loner presents an actual threat, or merely the added potential to be so.

Obviously it's inherently suggested that a werewolf is going to be more capable of being a true loner than a regular human, but that's something I feel I lack the intelligence to tackle, on the one hand with the infusion of wolf supposedly enhancing predatory instincts, while on the other, arguably offsetting humanity's own long illustrious (or depressing) history of killing way above its station, it's a call I can't make, so I'll end there.

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Re: Lone wolf

Post by Terastas » Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:12 am

Well, on one hand, I would think that kind of loner attitude would be encouraged as, the more self-sufficient the werewolves can be by themselves, the less there is to connect them together and, by extension, the less risk there is to the group as a whole.

It's been mentioned time and time again, but it bares repeating: For a modern day werewolf, the key to survival would be anonymity. Not just in making sure they do nothing to give away themselves as potential werewolves, but in making sure all the members of the group are never outwardly apparent as being a group. That way, if one of them is unfortunate enough to be discovered or exposed, it will have less of a chance of resulting in the discovery / exposure of the rest of the pack.

The only problem is that full sell-sufficiency just wouldn't be possible because, as I've said before, nobody could possibly know how to become prepared for life as a werewolf except by learning from another werewolf.

It's not exactly something you can check out a book at the library and read about. You'd need to either learn it from someone who already went through it before you, or take your chances with the trial & error system.
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Re: Lone wolf

Post by Volkodlak » Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:59 am

Terastas you have a good idea, but it would only be sensible if there are professional hunters hunting them, but im quite sure they do not kill every single WW they find becouse killing of a human will draw police attention so i belive they only hunt those who are threat too them or other humans, but there could be a single hunter with fanatic view and in this case strenght in numbers is best plan.
Terastas wrote:It's not exactly something you can check out a book at the library and read about. You'd need to either learn it from someone who already went through it before you, or take your chances with the trial & error system.


You can allways ask uncle Google he knows everything :)

Meeper nice idea and very nice explonation of it,well i was aiming at loaner that lives normal life has human and/or werewolf friends,job and also family but he is without a pack.
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Re: Lone wolf

Post by Terastas » Sun Mar 08, 2015 2:35 pm

lovec1990 wrote:Terastas you have a good idea, but it would only be sensible if there are professional hunters hunting them, but im quite sure they do not kill every single WW they find becouse killing of a human will draw police attention so i belive they only hunt those who are threat too them or other humans, but there could be a single hunter with fanatic view and in this case strenght in numbers is best plan.
True enough about professional hunters. But just as you could only learn how to live as a werewolf from another werewolf, the only people who could tell us, or a werewolf, the full extent of the threat of hunters are the hunters themselves.

The other, bigger problem is that, because of the aforementioned need for anonymity, amateur hunters could pose just as much of a problem. Some dilhole trying to shop his own reality show to follow Finding Bigfoot could just as easily blow a werewolf's cover just by being in the right place at the right time, and the problem of bodies piling up would be an even greater problem for the werewolves (who I assume are stationary) than the hunters (who I presume are mobile).
Terastas wrote:It's not exactly something you can check out a book at the library and read about. You'd need to either learn it from someone who already went through it before you, or take your chances with the trial & error system.


You can allways ask uncle Google he knows everything :)
Not with the Patriot Act you can't.
Meeper nice idea and very nice explonation of it,well i was aiming at loaner that lives normal life has human and/or werewolf friends,job and also family but he is without a pack.
Well that would depend on your definition of "a pack." Given what I said earlier about the need for anonymity, I would consider any werewolves who cooperate with each other to be members of a pack.

The code word in Inhuman when one is introducing another werewolf as being a werewolf is to say they are "family." Which is an effective metaphor because, no matter how much distance they put between each other, or how little involved they are with each other, there will always be a connection between them. So even though they barely speak to each other except when necessary, rarely ever live in the same town, and only have one member of the pack that even knows who all the other werewolves are, they still consider themselves to all be members of the same pack.

Ergo, if a werewolf has other werewolves as friends, in my book, that counts as him having a pack. The only way two werewolves couldn't be considered part of a pack, in my book, would be if there was a great deal of animosity between them (in which case they obviously would not be counted as friends).

I really don't see any middle ground between being a loner and not being a longer. You either know and are cooperating with other werewolves, or you're not.
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