Vampire and werewolf

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Vampire and werewolf

Post by Volkodlak » Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:09 am

Ok,

this is just for little talk on forum:
Firstly lets set some guidelines about vampires and werewolfs:

>Vampire:
-they will burn if they are exposed to sunlight
-they can drink animal blood
-they do not turn into bats,other animals or into mist
-they cannot eat human food

>Werewolf:
-they only transform during full moon and during high emotional state and/or high level of adrenaline
-they can eat human food
-they are in control of themselfs when they are changed, but control varies from werewolf to werewolf and they cannot talk.

Lets say that werewolfs and vampires exist and we(humans) accepted that they exist, but we are still geting used too that they exist my two questions are:
1.)Which of them would people accept better and faster?
2.)which one would have less troubles living?
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Re: Vampire and werewolf

Post by Chris » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:18 pm

Presuming vampires and werewolves are trying to be accepted (that is, they police themselves about attacking humans, and they try to live by human standards), I imagine vampires would have an easier time being accepted. Not that it would be easy, but still easier compared to werewolves. I base this on vampires being much easier to blend in... just keep out of sunlight, and feed on wild animals. In contrast, werewolves have to continually keep their emotions in check, and they're guaranteed to change at least once a month. And when they do change, people will always worry that this one will have too little control and attack against everyone's best efforts. And the difficulty in communication while changed will make people less willing to interact with them in that state.

Presuming human society doesn't change to accommodate a vampire's or werewolf's required lifestyle, I think werewolves would have an easier time living. Although they change once a month and have to continually keep their stress levels down, vampires have to avoid daylight every day. A vampire would have a difficult time getting a job if they can never ever work during the day, while a werewolf just needs to ensure they have full moon nights off and they take stress management courses.

Though there's other things to consider too, like how easy it is for a human to be infected by one of these creatures, and how easy they can be detected (by sight, blood tests, etc).

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Re: Vampire and werewolf

Post by Volkodlak » Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:21 pm

Nice post Chris.

1.)Which of them would people accept better and faster?

If they want too be accepted faster they will need to socialise with us and here comes the problem vampires cannot go out during the day so they will be more or less limited on night life and social media, but werewolfs will be working and/or talking with us and becouse of this in my theory we would despite them being more monstrous looking at certian times(when changed) know them better and accept them faster becouse something is knowing about them from social media, but meeting werewolf in person and/or seeing them each day is another thing you get used to them faster.

2.)which one would have less troubles living?

here we can i agree with Chris:
Chris wrote:A vampire would have a difficult time getting a job if they can never ever work during the day, while a werewolf just needs to ensure they have full moon nights off and they take stress management courses.
But i will add something vampire can work night shift and he would need a friend to go to butcher for blood or he would hunt it himself which would rise a problem they are killing wildlife and treehugers would not like it.Werewolf can go into shop and simply buy food.

Chris they turn others by bitting them and only sign what they are is their teeths(vampires upper canines slightly longer, but werewolf has upper and lower canines)
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Re: Vampire and werewolf

Post by Uniform Two Six » Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:05 pm

lovec1990 wrote: If they want too be accepted faster they will need to socialise with us and here comes the problem vampires cannot go out during the day so they will be more or less limited on night life and social media...
But, honestly, how much do you socialize at high noon? I don't think that's going to be the biggest issue since most socialization takes place towards the evening anyway -- since most people are at work during the day.

Werewolves I would think are going to have a tougher time in your scenario since (assuming the individual in question is "out") he's instantly at a disadvantage in the job market since he's got at least one day of the month that he's absolutely not available regardless of the circumstances (actually a fairly big disadvantage in this new age of on-demand-scheduling). That also tends to gloss over the issue that he's got to avoid high stress occupations entirely -- pretty much anything in the service industry is out.

Ultimately though, I think neither would do very well. Just look at the gays. Even in the 21st century, being gay generally sucks. The continued intolerance persists in part because of the religious aspect. So, basically take the social stigma associated with being gay and multiply it by a thousand. Also, being gay doesn't make you inherently dangerous. The first vampire or werewolf that goes nuts and eats someone is going to result in calls to herd them all into concentration camps.

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Re: Vampire and werewolf

Post by Volkodlak » Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:11 am

Uniform Two Six you are forgeting that werewolf is only unavaible during full moon and before it happens you are allready from work and other days there is no problems and i belive they will need too be quite stressed out to start changing. We socialise during the day too and most people do this during free time on a job and there are Saturdays and Sundays too and you can socialise then, but vampires can do it only at night and many of us would have easier time socialising with werewolf becouse they are going at work with us at similar times you know we can easier find time to socialise, but vampires will work at night so they will sleep during the day.

You are right to a point about gay people, but how people look at them is diffrent from country to country, example:
-In Slovenia we tolerate them quite nicely they can have their Pride parade which annoys me to no end, but incidents with it are rare there is minimal police guarding it and only troubles we have is that we do not want to give them right to adopt a child.
-In Serbia they are not as tolerant as are we and last time they had Pride parade they used police and army too guard them.

from this we can agree each country will be diffrent in how fast and how well they will accept them.
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Re: Vampire and werewolf

Post by Terastas » Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:12 am

Incidentally, this pretty much forms the crux of all the hostility between vampires and werewolves in the Inhuman setting. The two sides are not mortal enemies -- on the contrary, they are both very much committed to trying to coexist and work cooperatively. The problem is that, when you ask which side is the greater liability to their anonymity, both sides would argue that it is the other.

VAMPIRES
Pro: Resemble uninfected humans 24/7. At worst, they look like goth types.
Con: Very specific, unconventional needs that are extremely difficult to meet without compromising their morals in one way or another.

WEREWOLVES
Pro: Adaptable, self-sufficient and low maintenance.
Con: Very clearly recognizable as not being human at certain times.

Further straining relations is the fact that their survival strategies have placed them at opposite ends of the spectrum, both culturally, economically, and politically.

Vampires are communist, all working in companies owned collectively by the coven and donating large portions of their wages back into it to pay for their sustenance and shelter needs, but also harbor elements akin to huge income disparity on account of the coven having had to (mostly figuratively, but sometimes quite literally) sell their immortality to wealthy elites whenever times got tough, not all of whom are doing anything to help the image of vampires. Politically, vampires lean on the side of authoritarianism and surveillance, mostly on account of them all being dependent upon the same network that could easily be compromised if even so much as one vampire screws up in one way or another.

Werewolves, in contrast, do not require such an elaborate network, but have also never had any incentive / opportunity to build up some impressive financial reserves and instead survive through isolation and anonymity -- by living quiet, low-key lives and by only staying in touch with a small portion of the werewolf population overall. While vampires are entirely dependent upon a network which they will go to any means to protect, the werewolf survival strategy is to never become so dependent upon anything -- to never have any assets that they cannot immediately abandon should they become compromised, and to ensure that any missteps do not concern anyone but the werewolf that made it. So while vampires are communal capitalist authoritarians, werewolves are isolationist liberal libertarians.

Ergo, a typical conversation between a werewolf and a vampire generally involves the former saying "You've put all of your eggs in one basket and entrusted its care to a bunch of shady death cheaters," and the latter saying "You're telling me you're not even slightly concerned to know what kind of crap Packs B, C, D and E could be up to?"

Anyway, when it comes to social acceptance, it's an even spread. Some would sooner accept the vampires, just as many would sooner accept the werewolves, and the majority wouldn't trust either one of them any more than the other.
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Re: Vampire and werewolf

Post by Uniform Two Six » Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:22 pm

Terastas wrote: While vampires are entirely dependent upon a network which they will go to any means to protect, the werewolf survival strategy is to never become so dependent upon anything -- to never have any assets that they cannot immediately abandon should they become compromised, and to ensure that any missteps do not concern anyone but the werewolf that made it.
Hmmm... So much for packs sticking together through thick or thin, huh? :D

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Re: Vampire and werewolf

Post by Volkodlak » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:38 am

Offtopic:Uniform well they do stick together, but they are less dependent of each others as Terastas said it vampires are tight network so you compromise one coven it could bring down entire network while it cannot happen with werewolfs you can compromise a pack but others will not fall or experiance severe effect of losing a pack.
Terastas wrote:Anyway, when it comes to social acceptance, it's an even spread. Some would sooner accept the vampires, just as many would sooner accept the werewolves, and the majority wouldn't trust either one of them any more than the other.
im intrested in you know with witch of them would non-biased humans be more at ease with and accept faster.
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Re: Vampire and werewolf

Post by Meeper » Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:35 am

I don't have much cogent analysis to offer, but I do have some thoughts on the jobs and work thing.

Vampires

The daytime work situation may not necessarily be a problem in itself, more specifically it's the being outside unprotected. So you're not going to see too many vampires becoming brick layers or road workers without either protection or permission to work after daylight hours. Assuming direct sunlight is the issue and ambient daylight isn't really a problem, then having an office job, or basically any indoor activity is doable during the day. The real problem to me is how do you get to work? Of course riding the tube underground will cover distances, but you're going to attract jerks walking out of a subway or riding a bus with a bag over your head. Solve that problem in a socially acceptable and respected way, and you should be good. Willful jerks aside of course, there's always going to be some kid who thinks it's funny to pull the bag off a vampire's head. Laws can deal with that.

Werewolves

I'm completely convinced that werewolf peculiarities can be adequately covered under some form of disability exemption in work contracts and regulations, just like any other disability, so they can continue to work and be a part of society to the extent of their remaining ability and/or choosing. It can all be worked out. Again, assuming preceding social acceptance and keeping the opportunistic bullies in check, and various other things like legal defenses and liabilities and whatever else needs to be brought up to speed. In regards a werewolf going off on one and wrecking a few lives, humanity already has a well established precedence of doing just that, I don't think laws would need to be changed much, just hash out some new entries or amendments.

As to the question of which would fair better in the race for social acceptance and integration? On a large social scale, boy, that's a tough one, but I suspect the calmer vampires have the edge, under the assumption that they only need to avoid direct sunlight and that ambient daylight either isn't a problem or is relatively easy to protect from. If werewolves are short fused and/or perpetually rowdy then probably sooner or later that's going to get them killed by other aggressors and shunned by everybody else. That said, they both have social strikes against them, vampires are the walking dead, and how can we ever really be sure exactly what's socially appropriate to accept from a werewolf who might be giving us a wild animal when we think we're getting a human being? I'm not a brave enough man to call it on either of those cans of worms.

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Re: Vampire and werewolf

Post by Volkodlak » Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:27 am

well what about diet werewolf can eat normal human food while vampire has too drink animal or human blood?

personaly i find blood drinking scarier than eating normal food and they will need to buy blood from butchers or catch wild animal witch would, be worse than werewolf doing it, becouse werewolf would eat it while vampire will just drink blood and let dead animal body there to root becouse not sure anyone would like too buy dead animal with blood sucked out.

Meeper im not sure that your theory about vampires working during the day and you are forgeting that werewolf is less scarier than vampire when in human form and change trigger is not so low so i belive they can do their job besides they can take pills or take a little break.

So now we have fans of each side witch would accept them and rest would be neutral or hostile towards them and some would be afraid of them, but i belive if they come out they will try to coexist with humans becouse we outnumber them, becouse of that we can assume most of them will do their best to coexist with us peacefully and there will be some fanatics on all three sides.
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Re: Vampire and werewolf

Post by Terastas » Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:56 pm

lovec1990 wrote:Uniform well they do stick together, but they are less dependent of each others as Terastas said it vampires are tight network so you compromise one coven it could bring down entire network while it cannot happen with werewolfs you can compromise a pack but others will not fall or experiance severe effect of losing a pack.
Well, yes, they do. But keeping their distance from each other so anything that goes sour doesn't affect the whole pack is a survival strategy they all agreed upon.

One thing a lot of us agreed upon is that the initial turning process can be pretty brutal, and this is especially true in Inhuman. Any werewolf who was brought in as part of a group will have had at least one member of said group not survive the first month. And once you survive the transition, you're still not out of the woodwork -- any number of things can go wrong.

Another thing I've mentioned from time to time is that, as immortals, werewolves do not consider themselves to have a guarantee that they will live forever. Instead, they consider themselves to have a guarantee that their death, be it a week from now or a hundred years from now, will be very bloody and brutal -- something they wouldn't even wish upon their worst enemies (because if it was anything less than that, they'd recover from it).

So even though the werewolves are definitely committed to each other, they also have to live, not only with hearing about which werewolf might be gone forever and why every other week, but with the fact that, sooner or later, they themselves are all going to be the subject of such a story too.

So it's less about having written off the rest of the pack and more about having already written themselves off. The typical mindset of a werewolf is "I'm going to die, it's not going to be pretty, but I'm alright with that just as long as I'm the only one."
Terastas wrote:im intrested in you know with witch of them would non-biased humans be more at ease with and accept faster.
It would depend on how events play out after the reveal. Chiefly, whichever side gets blood on their hands first, most would trust the other.

That said, what we would probably see instead is a "both and neither" scenario in which both sides would attract extremists, the moderates from both sides would form their own collective identity, and the majority would site with the middle party.
well what about diet werewolf can eat normal human food while vampire has too drink animal or human blood?
This is certainly what would drive most people who side with the werewolves to do so.

That said, most of the difficulty wouldn't be in acquiring the blood. It would be in keeping a lid on where it's going or for what purpose. We kill enough pigs, cows and chickens in this country to fill Lake Eerie with their blood -- presumably the vampires would have previously been getting all of their sustenance from this industry. Then if they are publicly exposed, discretion no longer becomes an issue. A-la: "Yeah, we drink blood. But don't worry, we get it all from our partnership with Burger King."

It might be unnerving at first, but eventually I think it would come to be considered akin to a disability, and only continue to be unnerving among vampires that couldn't contain their enthusiasm for it. A vampire who limits himself only to what he absolutely needs and excuses himself so nobody could see him doing it will obviously get a lot more sympathy than the one who goes to the bar and orders a tall glass of chicken juice every single night.

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Re: Vampire and werewolf

Post by Volkodlak » Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:22 am

Nice response Terastas, i was thinking what are the chances that some vampires will acidentally or willingly feed on humans after being revealed you know now we can be less cautious, becouse i think one of their reasons for not feeding on us would be secrecy of their kind when there is no secret some of them will lose their cautiousness.
Werewolfs on the other hand would be more prone to using their hybrid or feral form in public you know now that they are public no need for hiding.
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Re: Vampire and werewolf

Post by Meeper » Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:46 pm

lovec1990 wrote:well what about diet werewolf can eat normal human food while vampire has too drink animal or human blood?
The initial and persistent revulsion most likely comes from the classic vampire association of taking advantage and slurping up blood from a helpless wounded person like an animal, which is legitimately horrifying. That's what people think of, it's a predatory animal attack on life itself, drinking something's, or worse someone's blood. Not too long ago I saw a similar spectacle of some native of another country making a small incision in the neck of an ox and taking a blood meal directly, which for them is normal practice, but for me and possibly you too it's the same horrific association. It need not be that way, and there's more ways to consume blood than drinking it raw. Unless you were to add a new specification that vampires have to drink raw blood straight from the source, if so, then you've certainly got an argument.

All that said, it still pales in comparison to sitting at my work desk minding my own business, and suddenly the entire floor needs to be evacuated and building locked down for emergency crews because a werewolf flipped out.

Here's the equation: Overcoming social transition issues associated with an unusual diet, or, be ready to evacuate at a moments notice and draw straws on who's the last one out when a werewolf loses it. Personally I'll take sitting next to someone eating a bit of vampire friendly black pudding, or even drinking a literally Bloody Mary over having my face chewed off any day.

By the same token, if a transformed werewolf is relatively safe, I think I'd rather sit next to a wolf munching dog biscuits. Hell it might be somewhat mutually therapeutic having a well behaved pooch running errands about the place.

In the end, ultimately the case I would make is that vampires, werewolves, calling them/selves a separate species is, to be blunt, delusional and utterly dumb, and splitting off to be a separate species that then wants to "reintegrate" is an idea that deserves an almighty metaphorical slap. What they are is human beings, who weird/bad things have happened to. End of story. Would I blame them? No! But the fools who think they're "not human anymore kthnxbai" frankly really would deserve every last ounce of ridicule heaped on them as with the bullies who can't leave it alone. I'm not saying they have to sit there and be miserable, or shouldn't take care of each other with their particular needs, I'm only saying they're human, they still deserve to be part of human society and by the same token should still have the support of society. This is why I think werewolves who decide to kill to preserve their secrecy is so stupid, why infecting people for the same reasons is irresponsible, why messing with someone's head head is puerile, threatening them is just not nice. And talking to "The pack alphas" is a little...shall we say "self pleasuring". But hey what do I know, I'm perfectly human, it really could be totally different for them.

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Re: Vampire and werewolf

Post by Volkodlak » Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:33 am

Meeper wrote:
All that said, it still pales in comparison to sitting at my work desk minding my own business, and suddenly the entire floor needs to be evacuated and building locked down for emergency crews because a werewolf flipped out.

Here's the equation: Overcoming social transition issues associated with an unusual diet, or, be ready to evacuate at a moments notice and draw straws on who's the last one out when a werewolf loses it. Personally I'll take sitting next to someone eating a bit of vampire friendly black pudding, or even drinking a literally Bloody Mary over having my face chewed off any day.
for bold text: black puding will help, but you still know its blood

normal text: Well you knda forgeting that normal human can flip out too you know. Besides i belive it would be rare even if he was so emotionaly compromised so he start changing he could excuse himself go to quiet place and calm down or transform and change back was soon as he can and if werewolf worked at that place before his kind become public and did not fliped out or changed it means he can control himself and can handle the stress of work he does.

Meeper wrote: By the same token, if a transformed werewolf is relatively safe, I think I'd rather sit next to a wolf munching dog biscuits. Hell it might be somewhat mutually therapeutic having a well behaved pooch running errands about the place.
Dog biscuits i think that would work better if dog does it you know some people will find this alittle weird or gross if werewolf does it, becouse they will consider that werewolf is also part human and people are not so found of looking at human that eats dog food and i belive werewolfs would avoid doing such stuff like eating dog food becouse they are not dogs.

Meeper wrote: In the end, ultimately the case I would make is that vampires, werewolves, calling them/selves a separate species is, to be blunt, delusional and utterly dumb, and splitting off to be a separate species that then wants to "reintegrate" is an idea that deserves an almighty metaphorical slap. What they are is human beings, who weird/bad things have happened to. End of story. Would I blame them? No! But the fools who think they're "not human anymore kthnxbai" frankly really would deserve every last ounce of ridicule heaped on them as with the bullies who can't leave it alone. I'm not saying they have to sit there and be miserable, or shouldn't take care of each other with their particular needs, I'm only saying they're human, they still deserve to be part of human society and by the same token should still have the support of society. This is why I think werewolves who decide to kill to preserve their secrecy is so stupid, why infecting people for the same reasons is irresponsible, why messing with someone's head head is puerile, threatening them is just not nice. And talking to "The pack alphas" is a little...shall we say "self pleasuring". But hey what do I know, I'm perfectly human, it really could be totally different for them.

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that depends on what kind of werewolfs and vampires we are talking about are they as close to natrual explonation(virus, bacteria,...) or supernatrual if they are natrual they could be considered humans with medical condition and if they are supernatrual they could be considered cursed or blessed humans.
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Re: Vampire and werewolf

Post by Terastas » Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:44 pm

lovec1990 wrote:Nice response Terastas, i was thinking what are the chances that some vampires will acidentally or willingly feed on humans after being revealed you know now we can be less cautious, becouse i think one of their reasons for not feeding on us would be secrecy of their kind when there is no secret some of them will lose their cautiousness.
The big problem is that the odds will vary from one vampire to another. Some of the people presently idolizing and/or emulating vampires out there are doing so, quite literally, as an expression of their desire to start slaughtering people in real life.

Unfortunately, the same goes for werewolves. The risk might not be of a werewolf going crazy -- it might instead be of a newly-minted werewolf having wanted to go crazy to begin with.

Used to be that violent low-IQ malignant narcissist kids idolized the Columbine killers and planned to shoot up their schools. Now we're suddenly seeing a trend of said idiots trying to travel to Yemen or Iraq to join ISIL. Which I do not attribute to any effective ISIL recruitment strategy -- I attribute it to them wanting to commit mass-murder, but also being so full of themselves that they need to pretend they have a legitimate reason to do so and deciding that jihad sounds legitimate enough.

I bring this up because, if vampires and werewolves did become known to the general public, I wholly suspect we would see the violent narcissists all drop jihad in favor of becoming a vampire or a werewolf. So their standing among the general public, while publicly thought of as their ability to control themselves, would be much more about their ability to prevent vampirisim / lycanthropy from ever passing on to someone who has ill intent for it.

Frankly, I wouldn't be concerned about a werewolf suddenly going bonkers and tearing up the place. Really, if they've survived this long without us even knowing whether or not they even, they're clearly doing something right. Same deal with the vampires -- they've made it this far without any problems, so while the biggest blood-drinking enthusiast might not garner any sympathy, it would have nothing to do with any threat level and everything to do with being an insufferable douche.

I'd have much more concern instead for how they adapt to going from secret to public overnight, and more specifically, how well they filter the people who line up to try and become vampires/werewolves after going public.

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Re: Vampire and werewolf

Post by Volkodlak » Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:03 pm

Nice post Terastas.

Well this will be unique situation even for werewolfs, vampires and humans in pre-public times people did not stodd in line to get turned, but they were turned accidentaly or they discovered them and helped them and they were given a offer or they were born with it, but now as you said it you have bunch of crazy fans, narcissistic people, ill people/parents with ill child and fanatics i think in this case they(WereWolfs, vampires) will work with police and other authoritys becouse they do not want lunatics have their condition and possibly they will not want drastic increase in their population and we will not want drastic increase in their population. We are forgeting this(going public) will be shock for both sides.
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Re: Vampire and werewolf

Post by Meeper » Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:03 am

lovec1990 wrote:black puding will help, but you still know its blood
Right, the point is though, black pudding has long since been socially accepted. Sure there's people who still think it weird, but the fact you can buy it anywhere is telling. Which is why I mentioned it. Further thoughts. Sourcing human blood instead of animal blood for things like vampire friendly black pudding may be controversial, otherwise I don't see an issue. Although one possible way round sourcing human blood is to lump it in with blood donations, except instead of transfusion the blood is administered orally. It may be disingenuous to do that, but still, something along those lines might get it past public scrutiny and avoid moral panics.
lovec1990 wrote:Well you knda forgeting that normal human can flip out too you know.
Ahem, I think my scars might have something to say about that, besides that's a given. The difference is I've never faced anyone armed with wolf jaws, overwhelming speed, and an MO of literally chewing off faces. Then there's the fun and games if you're "lucky" enough to survive, I took that as a given too. I also mentioned evacuating floors and locking down buildings in the event of an angry werewolf. There's more to it than not getting bitten, if transformations are bloody for example, premises will need to be cleaned and furnishings replaced, drainage points checked etc. Not just because of the blood itself, but the fact it's contagious. There's more to a werewolf flipping out than is necessarily immediately obvious.
lovec1990 wrote:Dog biscuits i think that would work better if dog does it you know some people will find this alittle weird or gross if werewolf does it, becouse they will consider that werewolf is also part human and people are not so found of looking at human that eats dog food and i belive werewolfs would avoid doing such stuff like eating dog food becouse they are not dogs.
Exactly my point. It's a descending order of disgust. As the horror of taking a blood meal directly compares to the weird of eating black pudding, so the weird of eating black pudding compares to the relative normality of seeing what looks like a big dog eating dog biscuits, until you realize its humanity. Dog biscuits, which I might add can easily enough be made fit for human consumption and branded for werewolves 8) . For the record I was being facetious anyway :D .
lovec1990 wrote:Besides i belive it would be rare even if he was so emotionaly compromised so he start changing he could excuse himself go to quiet place and calm down or transform and change back was soon as he can and if werewolf worked at that place before his kind become public and did not fliped out or changed it means he can control himself and can handle the stress of work he does.
Good point, and the reason I said this...
Meeper wrote:Hell it might be somewhat mutually therapeutic having a well behaved pooch running errands about the place.
and in part reason for my finishing paragraph, speaking of which.
lovec1990 wrote:
Meeper wrote: In the end, ultimately the case I would make is that vampires, werewolves, calling them/selves a separate species is, to be blunt, delusional and utterly dumb, and splitting off to be a separate species that then wants to "reintegrate" is an idea that deserves an almighty metaphorical slap. What they are is human beings, who weird/bad things have happened to. End of story. Would I blame them? No! But the fools who think they're "not human anymore kthnxbai" frankly really would deserve every last ounce of ridicule heaped on them as with the bullies who can't leave it alone. I'm not saying they have to sit there and be miserable, or shouldn't take care of each other with their particular needs, I'm only saying they're human, they still deserve to be part of human society and by the same token should still have the support of society. This is why I think werewolves who decide to kill to preserve their secrecy is so stupid, why infecting people for the same reasons is irresponsible, why messing with someone's head head is puerile, threatening them is just not nice. And talking to "The pack alphas" is a little...shall we say "self pleasuring". But hey what do I know, I'm perfectly human, it really could be totally different for them.

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that depends on what kind of werewolfs and vampires we are talking about are they as close to natrual explonation(virus, bacteria,...) or supernatrual if they are natrual they could be considered humans with medical condition and if they are supernatrual they could be considered cursed or blessed humans.
I think you're trying to see the majesty of the elephant in the room by looking at it through a microscope. It doesn't matter what version of creature it is, be it supernatural, virus based, whatever. It's still based on a human, and that's enough to make the case valid. If it wasn't for the human component, they wouldn't be vampires and werewolves, they'd be something else entirely, and humanity wouldn't need to care at all.

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Re: Vampire and werewolf

Post by Volkodlak » Sun Apr 12, 2015 1:39 am

Meeper wrote:Right, the point is though, black pudding has long since been socially accepted. Sure there's people who still think it weird, but the fact you can buy it anywhere is telling. Which is why I mentioned it. Further thoughts. Sourcing human blood instead of animal blood for things like vampire friendly black pudding may be controversial, otherwise I don't see an issue. Although one possible way round sourcing human blood is to lump it in with blood donations, except instead of transfusion the blood is administered orally. It may be disingenuous to do that, but still, something along those lines might get it past public scrutiny and avoid moral panics.
Ups i forgot im not sure if vampire can even eat it becouse it has egridients commonly found in human food. Well you see werewolf will do normally less morally questionable things.
Meeper wrote:Ahem, I think my scars might have something to say about that, besides that's a given. The difference is I've never faced anyone armed with wolf jaws, overwhelming speed, and an MO of literally chewing off faces. Then there's the fun and games if you're "lucky" enough to survive, I took that as a given too. I also mentioned evacuating floors and locking down buildings in the event of an angry werewolf. There's more to it than not getting bitten, if transformations are bloody for example, premises will need to be cleaned and furnishings replaced, drainage points checked etc. Not just because of the blood itself, but the fact it's contagious. There's more to a werewolf flipping out than is necessarily immediately obvious.
well i saw once person flip out and he did not attack any of coworkers so i belive if werewolf flips out becouse of stress he will destroy office equipment not attack humans except if they are the couse of his fliping out with other things you wrote i agree.
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Re: Vampire and werewolf

Post by Meeper » Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:24 am

lovec1990 wrote:i belive if werewolf flips out becouse of stress he will destroy office equipment not attack humans except if they are the couse of his fliping out with other things you wrote i agree.
So, we need a work environment where werewolf co-workers don't feel awkward about stress related transformations. We need other jobs for werewolves to do when they can't help themselves, so they don't get bored and start chewing the furniture. We need werewolf chew toys, just in case. And we need werewolf biscuits 8) .

*Edit*

Forgot about this, I'm adding this now so I don't forget, and when I have my thoughts in order I'll edit this further, or post again. Someone mentioned a situation with immortal werewolves, that it's probably obvious enough that the only way they're going to die is if they're violently destroyed. My mind has faded since I thought of it, and it's probably been raised before, on top of that it's a hot topic in its own right, and that is euthanasia for immortals.

As I said my mind has faded now, and I'm not up to speed on the topic. So for now I'm just putting it out there.

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Re: Vampire and werewolf

Post by Volkodlak » Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:33 am

ok i said it before if werewolf had worked there before becoming public knowlage it means he can take the stress so fliping out would be really rare and what is with your foudness with dog/werewolf biscuits and why would adult werewolf have a chew toy?

still i belive dog biscuits are far easier to watch than blood.
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Re: Vampire and werewolf

Post by Meeper » Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:50 am

lovec1990 wrote:ok i said it before if werewolf had worked there before becoming public knowlage it means he can take the stress so fliping out would be really rare and what is with your foudness with dog/werewolf biscuits and why would adult werewolf have a chew toy?

still i belive dog biscuits are far easier to watch than blood.
I believe I was being a goofball :) . But if you want to take it seriously, I'll give you seriously. You set the criteria in your opening post, and that's the criteria I'm working with.

The assertion that werewolves who've remained undetected, but hitherto in close harmonious collaboration with non werewolves, is indeed strong evidence they can handle themselves, but that is still only one scenario, albeit a very compelling one. However, In accordance with your criteria, it is not forced to be the case that werewolves are already well integrated and simply looking for full and open revelation that they exist. Sure they've managed, the question is, how?

There are people in the world, really bad people, who do lose it, do kill people, rob them, rape them, ransack and ruin. And yet evade identification let alone capture, free to walk the streets and even marry into your unsuspecting family. They have to live a double life till they die, be it old age or retribution.

For this reason it is entirely conceivable to me that some werewolves can be in a position of having to live on fringes like that, yet yearn to legitimately walk freely with people. After all, unlike bad people, being a werewolf or vampire doesn't make you a criminal, but putting yourself in a position where you can cause harm certainly could be. While that predicament (or at least my interpretation) outlined in your opening question is an awkward one, I believe re-integration with the rest of human society can be managed. It is those ways to work around the hazards that I took upon myself to ponder and offer thoughts on, that's all.

As to dog biscuits and such, I've already answered that question, I was being facetious with my choice of comparisons, because I like to be a goofball, it keeps me sane while trying to dig deeply into some pretty upsetting thoughts. You're just going to have to forgive me that.

If all werewolves were totally cool, then you're right, and I totally agree.

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Last edited by Meeper on Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vampire and werewolf

Post by Volkodlak » Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:22 am

i know i gave a little odd question.
Meeper wrote:Sure they've managed, the question is, how?
its quite simple they keept their emotions and stress under control. I started too think how vampires surivived unoticed you know only be able to go out during the night and blood drinking.

Meeper my original question is very simple will we have less troubles coexisting with vampires or werewolfs and witch will have less troubles living?
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Re: Vampire and werewolf

Post by Meeper » Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:16 am

lovec1990 wrote:i know i gave a little odd question.
Meeper wrote:Sure they've managed, the question is, how?
its quite simple they keept their emotions and stress under control. I started too think how vampires surivived unoticed you know only be able to go out during the night and blood drinking.

Meeper my original question is very simple will we have less troubles coexisting with vampires or werewolfs and witch will have less troubles living?
Thanks Lovec for that astounding piece of insight, keep your stress levels under control. Wish I'd thought of that :P .

The reason I was doing this is because one way of exploring how well one group can integrate into another, is to explore the solutions to overcome potential problems, like chew toys, sounds funny I know, but rather that than chewing the furniture, or chewing those fiber optic cables to relieve your stress, just like a student chewing a pencil to splinters while sitting exams. Or why hide shifts anyway, now that everybody presumably knows and you're in the throws of gaining acceptance, thus further reducing stress of having to go away and deal with it in private. Or deeper issues of immortality, Brutal ends and euthanasia, and perhaps a little religion off the back of that. But since you've got it all figured out, I guess there's no reason to discuss this topic anymore.

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Re: Vampire and werewolf

Post by Volkodlak » Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:30 am

Meeper pre public werewolfs would manage stress and emotions quite well becouse was important for them to manage it or they will become public, but its the ones who get turned after werewolfs and vampires become public becouse they will not need too stay hidden.

but i kinda think vampires are more in troubles becouse all Twilight fans will be in line and you do not want them gain vampirism becouse last thing vampires need is crazy Twilight fans with vampirism :)

Beside if they become public most will try to be accepted, becouse most werewolfs were thinking about telling their loved ones what they are, but now public kows they are real and werewolf can reveal himself and besides if they secretly coexist with us when they were secret why would they stoped doing it now?

and werewolfs can live by our standards easier than vampires, becouse they transform one day per month and that is during the night and your boss would understand this and emotions will not be such a problem becouse they existed with us before and nobody lost it on job and transformed. While vampires cannot work during the day and need special food and also werewolf is more human looking in human form that vampire witch is cold and alittle more pale and yes werewolf is far more non human looking while changed but unlike vampire he can revert to human form so becouse of this humans could like werewolf more becouse he looks more like them and eats same food.

And i was kinda thinking on what jobs would werewolfs and vampires be most sought after revelation:

Werewolfs would easier get a job or be seeked to be hired in army, police, search and rescue and other federal agencies(FBI, CIA, NCIS,CSI,...) becouse of their senses normaly you would need a dogs help but now you have a werewolfs in your team witch are better than dogs. They could also work in construction or industry becouse of their better edurance, strenght,... , but they will have hard time to get job in animal hospitals, animal shelters, becouse some animals could react with fleeing or attacking a werewolf.

Vampires would easier get a job in professins that require a night shift, but they might have hard time to get job in hospitals, becouse some people would be alittle unease with vampires being around wnen they are sleeping.

what is your take on this or wfor witch job would werewolf or vampire be most seeked for?
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Re: Vampire and werewolf

Post by Uniform Two Six » Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:17 pm

lovec1990 wrote: but i kinda think vampires are more in troubles becouse all Twilight fans will be in line and you do not want them gain vampirism becouse last thing vampires need is crazy Twilight fans with vampirism
Heh. Yeah, especially if they find out that vampires aren't necessarily underwear-model-sexy and sparkle in daylight... :D

On a more serious note however, I do disagree with you on the werewolves and vampires getting jobs idea. Yes, if you have a graveyard shift that you need filled, a vampire will probably be answering that job posting. Unfortunately, an employer is not looking for somebody who can fill that slot and only that slot. On-demand-staffing has become so ubiquitous and the job market remains so tight that the vampire is probably S.O.L. when he's competing with the human who can be shifted to a daytime position when circumstances warrant.

The werewolf is equally screwed since the occupations that are well suited to his particular super-human talents (strength, endurance, etc.) are continuing to shift offshore -- if he can find such an opening, great, but it's a super-tight job market and...

The werewolf is doubly screwed since he's got the aggression issues to deal with. I just don't see him cutting it in the service industry or anywhere he has to have face to face interaction with the public. Moreover, regardless of where he finds an opening, his temper is probably going to get him into trouble with his boss. If you're going to hire someone, are you going to go for the guy who's not available regardless of circumstances at least one night of the year and has anger-management issues (and the ability to snap every bone in the customer that ticks him off), or are you going to go with the ordinary straight-up normal human?

Actually, in your scenario, I would imagine the government having to implement some sort of affirmative-action program to incentivize hiring "altered persons" (or whatever the PC euphemism would become).

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