Are we too much focusing on realism?

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Are we too much focusing on realism?

Post by Volkodlak » Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:15 am

Hi,

when i came here forum members started to talk about realism(conservation of mass,etc...) and i went by this realism, but im starting too wonder are we too much obsessed with realism?

i kinda think we should be more flexible, nobody bash Hulk becouse of its insane mass gain and in werewolf movies nobody complains this is unrealistic no person should be able too transform into wolf or wolf like creature with super strenght so people are willing too watch this kind of movie.
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Re: Are we too much focusing on realism?

Post by JoshuaMadoc » Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:04 am

Absolutely not.

I think the real problem is that, realistic or fantastic, a lot of us fall into the trap of Bullshit Invocation, and that hurts both execution and overall product quality. It doesn't even have to be the nitty gritty of werewolf lore, all it takes is something like poor narrative structuring and poor general research -- *cough*Stargazers*cough* -- for you to invoke bullshit with or without knowing.

Taking away fun, wit and detail also doesn't help. Think about how satisfying it would be if, say, Superman figured out that to save a person, he needs to match said person's velocity during a fall, and then pick them up by doing a wide, vertical U-turn, instead of just rocketing straight into them, so as to not tear them in half from two velocities. That's not only logical, but it could leave potential for a very impressive rescue scene.

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Re: Are we too much focusing on realism?

Post by Fabricator » Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:06 pm

. Realism is part of Freeborn's foundation. The point is to make werewolves as believable as possible. Without the level of realism that forum members have gone to in order to scientifically and logically explain the existence of werewolves, Freeborn would be just another werewolf tale. It just makes it so much more interesting when the logic of an impossibility can be twisted to prove that the impossible is possible. So much so, that it invokes you to stop and think. When you really get into a movie at the theater, and are leaving as the credits roll, there's a feeling you get. I have not seen any of the hulk movies, or even the television show, so bear with me if this example isn't quite right.
. I imagine that feeling would be much more intense if the movie had explained how the serum creates and takes away the mass and energy for the Hulk. For it to be so logical that you leave the movie with the idea that the Hulk could actually exist. Would a werewolf movie not be so much better if you left the theater with not just the idea, but the knowledge that werewolves could exist? Now, don't get me wrong, there are a few good werewolf stories that don't bother to explain how werewolves work or even how they exist, but this is Freeborn. Brownrigg created The Pack to find out what werewolf fans want in a werewolf movie. Realism happens to be a large part of that. Realism in fiction invokes thought, and with that makes it more enjoyable, memorable, and even surreal.
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Re: Are we too much focusing on realism?

Post by Meeper » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:09 pm

lovec1990 wrote:nobody bash Hulk becouse of its insane mass gain
People do actually, the reason they stop bashing it (and why most don't bother to begin with) is because to continue to do so is futile. I could go on a bit about how Hulk "purists" from different historical eras of the hulk incarnation might similarly argue that their era represents the true hulk, when all along it's all a bunch of ad-hoc creative process anyway, or as Joshua put it..."Bullshit invocation" spread over time.

The pack, and by extension Freeborn, is an opportunity to wipe the slate clean and create one thing that's relatively solid conceptually, so stripping away borrowed (and over used) sensational fluff is reasonable to do. In fact as I understand it the founding question of Freeborn's concept is "what if werewolves were real?". I think we can all agree the Hulk and Superman isn't real.

The argument to come out of the wall then is that transforming a human into a wolf isn't real either, why not use that as a license to abandon realism more in werewolf stories? This has been a constant uphill battle against opening the floodgates to a flying kung-fu superwolf with laser eyes and apocalypse powers. What we're trying to say with realism is we want a story about werewolves, let's just let a werewolf to be a werewolf this time. Then the question is well what is a werewolf anyway? We have long since had a consensus, and it isn't anything like a comic book werewolf.

In regards the Freeborn project I don't think we're focusing too much on realism at the expense of cooler fun things, it's just a different type of story and different type of genre catering to a different level in people. Personally I'm long since bored of the comic hype and exaggerations, a lot of people are, and Freeborn looks promising to fill a void for some people. So while many do still enjoy comics, they (hopefully) recognize that Freeborn is not a comic, indeed if I wanted to be really belligerent about it I could say that raising this question by making canon comic book character comparisons is more born of an obsession with one facet of fantasy story telling than Freeborn is with forging its own path diligently distilled from thousands of broadly ranging opinions accumulated over several years.

Regarding general discussions, anything goes of course, except fantasy werewolves, they're banned! (just kidding :wink: ).

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Re: Are we too much focusing on realism?

Post by JoshuaMadoc » Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:19 am

Meeper wrote:flying kung-fu superwolf
Image

*cough*

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Re: Are we too much focusing on realism?

Post by Volkodlak » Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:05 am

Thanks for your answers
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Re: Are we too much focusing on realism?

Post by Terastas » Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:44 pm

That assumes the Hulk even gains mass at all. Just because something looks bigger doesn't mean it is bigger.

Of course, there's another very important reason nobody questions The Hulk: He's charging into battle alongside a Norse god with a magic hammer against invaders from another world.

What I would suggest is that, while it definitely does not need to be completely realistic, an effort should be made to at least keep things plausible. And while we might not necessarily divulge the answers to all of these questions (doing so would take away a lot of the mystery, and waste time that should be told telling the story), we should still have them for our own reference. Going back on the Avengers, for example, Stark doesn't pause to explain to us how he solved the icing problem. But just because the question was not answered, that doesn't mean there isn't an answer.

Lycanthropy should be treated similarly, IE: even if we have no intention of revealing the answers to many of these questions to the audience (and again, we shouldn't), we should still have them for our own references as we are writing it. Otherwise we run the risk of falling into "magic" or "just because" laziness.

And when you fall into "just because" laziness, well, that's how you wind up with something like Twilight.
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Re: Are we too much focusing on realism?

Post by Meeper » Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:11 pm

Plausible reality versus comic book reality: I remember a comment about Conan the barbarian. If Conan was real, he'd be built more like Iggy Pop.
JoshuaMadoc wrote:
Meeper wrote:flying kung-fu superwolf
Image

*cough*
Freeborn: Starring Jon Talbain! We need a Freeborn character dressed up as Jon Talbain for Halloween or fancy dress or something. 8)

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Re: Are we too much focusing on realism?

Post by JoshuaMadoc » Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:17 am

The most important thing to remember on both extremes of this topic is to try to inject FUN into it. Is it smart? Is it stupid? Doesn't matter, if it's not fun, then it's either boring or infuriating.

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